No Value Does Not Equal Free … It Equals $2,252.40.
It’s taken an entire year–literally, to the day–for my quilt, No Value Does Not Equal Free to come full circle on my blog. It all started with a few innocent sample blocks, that bloomed into what I consider to be one of my greatest works. It took a lot of time … and as they say, time is money!
I’m not cheap. If anything, I am a high-class, Rodeo Drive, “I would have stayed for two thousand,” type of girl. (But if any of you would have paid four, you just give me a holla!) This was evidenced last November when I posted a seemingly innocuous post called TGIFF – No Value Does Not Equal Free. In it, I showcased a finished quilt top, made entirely of white fabrics, using Bonnie Hunter’s Scrappy Trip Around the World block tutorial.
My original artist statement from November 2013: “I wanted to do this all white version as a direct response to two things. First, to all of the scrap-vomit, and let’s just be perfectly honest, [some] fugly versions of Trip Around the World quilts that hit the Interwebs last year. … Secondly, I created my version in response to the Low Value / Volume phenomenon that is still omni-present, and in my opinion, an over-used trend.”
My hooker boots paraded a bit further down the sidewalk though. I took the opportunity to record the cost of all my materials and track the exact time spent in making the quilt top. I then assembled these details, along with other figures into a costing sheet to tally the cost of the quilt top only. The response was so feverish, I almost Pirates of Penzanced. Once Sew Mama Sew shared it with their readers (thank you!), it snowballed from there. It’s still my most viewed blog post, sparking divisive commentary, and leading to other costing articles about cushions and baby quilts. Overall, a tumultuous, yet blog-changing experience. Suddenly, people knew my name, and were Truth Tea-ing me before I had even put the kettle on. There was so much, loudness surrounding that article (ironic really for a quilt with no volume) that the actual quilt got a little lost.
Let me share a few notes on the finished quilt before we jump into the economics of it all! It contains 36 scrappy Trip Around the World blocks. However, they all use Kona White as their centre, diagonal stripe to give a pure white point of reference. You definitely see its brightness in certain lights. The magnificent long-arm quilting was done by Jane ‘Quilt Jane’ Davidson in Brisbane, Australia. The brief I gave her: masculine, feather-free, architectural, Vogue Living, and include the words No Value Does Not Equal Free. She chimed back: graffiti, over-sized text, circles, and staccato. She really gets me! As one astute viewer remarked at the Sydney Craft & Quilt Fair, “This quilt wouldn’t be nearly as magnificent without the quilting.” Slap: I love a good back-handed compliment!
After all the drama the first, and subsequent, costing posts created, I felt I wanted to reference that in the backing. So I created twenty-six friendship stars (#cantwealljustgetalong), using Kona White as the centre, and other whites for the surrounds of each individual star block. I ran these in a horizontal stripe across the entire back, surrounded on either side by yardage of Mirror Ball Dot. I adore how luxe it looks and feels!
For the binding, I used a white tone-on-tone city map print that Alyce of Blossom Heart Quilts sent me from Japan. A city map print for a Trip Around the World quilt–doesn’t get much more perfect than that! Of course I had to include my glitter-flecked binding (GFB); it’s subtle, but it’s there!
I’m completely confident in my costing model methodologies, but if you don’t like my methods, you certainly don’t have to use them. That’s not to say I’m not happy to discuss them, my reasoning, and why I am fabulously worth it. I’d love to hear your ideas, too! If you’re looking for further discussion about the economics of quilting definitely check out Sam Hunter’s many musings about the topic at Hunters Design Studio. She founded the We Are $ew Worth It campaign which also influenced this project. A special thanks to Sam for her work in this arena!
So that’s the history, but $2,252.40 AUD for a 72″ x 72″ quilt made from 1,296, 2.5″ squares? (You want the back, too!) Surely not? Surely so! I’ve used my own Costing Template (free download links at the end of this post) to outline the full breakdown of costs for this quilt. I’ve included everything from artist’s fees to thread. If I ever had any doubt about exact timings or costings of a particular item, I rounded down. Do realise that what you are about to see is how much it cost me to make this quilt in Sydney, Australia, where everything is more expensive than say, Broken Arrow, Oklahoma. Fear not, I’ve included a US version as well!
So let me explain a few of these things. My panties are already in a wad over in the corner, so don’t get any ideas!
- The Australian dollar is nearly on parity with the US dollar.
- The Design Concept Fee is a one time fee to cover the cost of the artist’s project idea. This also includes time spent on figuring out the project with regards to aesthetics, pre-sketching, fabric choice, calculating fabric quantities, cutting and assembly procedure, layout decisions and general pondering time throughout the project. This charge has nothing to do with the free pattern / tutorial by Bonnie Hunter. If I had created an original pattern / tutorial, the Design Concept Fee would be much higher.
- Fabric for the front was purchased at all different rates, throughout the world. Fabric in the US is typically around $8-12 per yard, fabric in Australia is typically $18-24 / yard (metre). I settled on an estimated cost of $15.00 / yard. Purchasing fabric and thread solely in Australia would have increased the supplies cost by approximately $100.00. For the US costing model, I used an estimated cost of $10.00 / yard.
- Fabric for the back was purchased from Craftsy during a flash sale. Michael Miller Mirror Ball Dots in Snow for $6.29 / yard. However, I am of the opinion you should charge full price for supplies, as this is what it would cost to replace them. I have thereby billed it at $15.00 / yard.
- Shipping charges are estimated for various purchases at $50.00 (this is low). I’ve included minor, miscellaneous charges here such as fuel while purchasing fabrics, needles, utilities, and sewing machine maintenance.
- Regarding time spent during production, I timed myself at each step, even pausing the clock if I had to make myself lunch, etc. I felt I was sewing efficiently, chain piecing when I could.
- I paid myself $30.00 / hour. In Australia in 2013, the median weekly earnings for full-time employees was $1,152.00. (That’s from the Australian Bureau of Statistics). Based on a full-time, 38 hour work-week, that equates to $30.32 / hour. To keep it simple, I rounded to $30.00 / hour.
- Remember, this is in Australia. The median wage in your country is probably different. From what I can ascertain from the United States Social Security Administration website the most recently reported 2012 median yearly wage in the US was $27,519.10, which equates to $13.93 / hour. To keep it simple, I rounded to $14.00 / hour in the US costing model below.
Still, the median? Are you sure you deserve that much? ABSOLUTELY! In my day job I work in the facilities and maintenance industry, and pay vendors industry rates of $60.00 / hour during the day, and even $120.00 / hour during evenings and weekends. Considering I’m usually sewing in the evenings and weekends, asking for $30.00 / hour (when the plumber is making $120.00) seems completely acceptable to me! You have to make your own judgements here, but my sassy ass is worth more than $10.00 / hour. To be honest, I think my ass is hot, and it is worth way more than $30.00 / hour!
- Long-arm services were provided by Jane ‘Quilt Jane’ Davidson in Australia. Her charges are reflected in the costing sheet. She deserves more. (Edit: Some of you savvy readers pointed out that the original custom quilting charge listed seemed low. I checked my invoice, and you were correct! I was looking at the wrong line item on an invoice of three quilts. The quilting price, and full total has been updated accordingly. Thanks!)
- I have added a 20% profit margin, because otherwise I’m just breaking even. Your labour wage, is not your profit margin on the item you are selling. If you were solely selling your services, such as hemming pants, you might build that into your wage. In this case, the wage is for creating the product, the profit is the additional monies charged on all particulars (wages included) to create that product. There is a difference.
- And well, you add it all up, and this quilt is valued at $2,252.40 AUD. No value does not equal free.
For those in the USA, where quilting is nearly a four billion dollar industry, I created a more localised costing sheet for you. As previously mentioned, I altered the fabric cost to $10.00 / yard, and the labour rate to $14.00 / hour based on the most recently documented US median wage. Based on these calculations, your final total comes to $1,546.06 USD. Even if you chose not to charge a Design Concept Fee, and a profit margin, this quilt still cost you $1038.38 USD in materials and labour. Maybe that’s why you have a safety pin holding your boot up!
Download Excel Costing Template
Download Numbers Costing Template
I’d love to hear what you think! Hash it out in the comments, but please remember to be nice to each other. I’m the only one around here allowed to be a bitch! I’ll be replying in the comments rather than via email for this post to ensure some great discussion happens. If nothing else, know this: When it comes to a quilt, it must be difficult to let go of something so beautiful, so just make sure you take care of you.
Title: No Value Does Not Equal Free
Size:72″ x 72″
Pattern: Scrappy Trip Around the World, tutorial by Bonnie Hunter
Fabric: miscellaneous whites from around the globe
Quilting: Long arm quilting, by Quilt Jane using Aurifil 50wt, colour 2024 White
Binding: hand stitched with Aurifil 50wt, colour 2024 White
Backing: Pieced backing of Friendship Stars using scraps from the front, and Michael Miller Mirror Ball Dot
Favourite Part: That it’s become one of my signature quilts.
This beauty was worth every penny. Tracking the actual time and money spent on a quilt might be one of the boldest craft projects I've ever seen!
Wow and hallelujah sista! Well done! Those who do not create have no clue…and some who do create still don't have a clue of total cost of ownership of a quilt. I purchased one of Sam Hunter's patterns to make for my grandson as a birthday gift. When I told my son what I was making for his child, he suggested that I whip up a couple of extra quilts for him to give away as gifts and oh BTW how much ove $25USD would that cost him…I nearly spewed my coffee. Then realize he was not joking. Gave him a sip of the T tea…not counting my longarm quilting services or construction time..$180/each. After I picked his jaw up off of the floor, gave him a lesson on taking care of all of the quilts and clothes I've made for his kids cuz that blood sweat and tears I put into them is priceless..
Debra – sometimes even the ones closest to us need a sip of the Truth Tea! Good work, because he's now been educated, and will have a new respect for all that you (we) do!
This is absolutely gorgeous! I sell things every now and then on Etsy, and I try really hard to price things properly. But it can be hard to compete with people who just price things to sell, rather than pricing them at what they are worth/should be sold for.
I agree, Hilary. People create and sell things for various reasons. I have my own reservations about Etsy… I'm not sure it is the level market place I want to be in, but it does have its purpose.
I think you've missed something out. You must have used premises and machinery and heat and light to make this quilt. A proportion of the cost of these should go in too!
You are correct! I did think about electricity, but without knowing the exact cost, I put it in the "Misc" category. I do think that overall figure is low though because there is so much unaccounted for! Good pick up!
I love this quilt. I love this post. I love that you are worth more. And I love that your soul isn't for sale. I was offered $30 for one of my raincoats yesterday. Told her to get a calculator and times it by 10 and we'd talk…
I'd look dashing in blue leopard print.
I LOVE that you broke all the costs down and present them in such a logical way. I agree that quilters undervalue themselves tremendously mainly due to buyers taking a lot of the work that goes into a quilt for granted.
I'm really curious to learn whether you'll be able to sell your (beautiful!) quilt at your calculated price. I'm definitely not saying it isn't worth this exact sum, but will anybody pay this much for it 'in real life'?
You bring up an excellent point about supply and demand (also mentioned by a few others below). The original exercise was just to see the cost. I'd love to be able to prove that it could be sold for this amount, as an example for all those who say quilts can't be sold for what they are worth. On the flip side, is I love this quilt so much, I'm not sure I could let it go!
As you know from the previous discussions I think your quilt is worth every penny (cent?) of that sum but like this commentor I am wondering if you will sell it easily, assuming that you wanted too. I want to think that when you get to the high end (which would be Harrods/Selfridges etc in England) you may be able to but I wonder at the volume/speed of work/duplication that this kind of selling would require. Any hand made beautiful item is worth a lot of money but I'm not sure if we live in a culture which appreciates this when cheap stuff can be bought, thrown away and new style not to last cheap s**t can be replacing it in the quest for the next fad.
Oops, sorry Molls I wrote a book.
thank you so much for this. It is absolutely fascinating and also vital that these discussions happen. And also, that quilt is so effing beautiful I want to cry.
It is a labour of love. Maybe Kylie would like to buy it. Joking aside, why not target celebs? They always want unique, exclusive- "No other girl-friend will ever have this!" and glamorous fabulous=Made by You.
You could be the Quilt Maker to the A-Listers Mollie!
EvaRose – actually, I have thought about this! e.g. Quiltmaker to the Stars … literally. If you know Kylie's number, please send her a text to let her know I have some quilts ready for her. Just tell her to stop by my apartment!
A fellow rebel, I love everything you do, wow though, Jane's quilting is AWESOME and she is too cheap for custom work. I hope you've told her that.
Yeah, I thought that too… then I realised I was looking at the wrong quilt on my invoice! I knew I would make a mistake with all of these numbers!
A really stunning quilt and one I'd really love to see in person as I suspect photographs can never do real justice to the use of fabrics and design. The quilting is magnificent and defintiely adds a lot to it. I think your costings are almost right – there should really be a flat rate factored in for overheads, but they are certainly not overvaluing your work by any stretch of the imagination. I get than some people want to sew for the love of it and are happy to just recover the costs of their materials so for them I guess it's the case that someone paying for the materials gives them the oppertunity to keep doing what they love at "no cost" to themselves. However I think that anyone who wants to make a buisness from their sewing, be it full time or just part time for a little extra cash, should be costing out their work properly in the manner you have done. I for one believe in paying extra for handcrafted items and would be more than happy to pay the price that you have costed this quilt at as it properly reflects it's worth.
About bloody time!!! I'm sure nobody will be surprised to hear me say: nobody 'gets' the value of what we do!!! When I tell people that a quilt can take as many as 50 hours to make and ask THEM to calculate what they think my time is worth … they often take a bit of a deep breath when they figure out the cost of the labour … not to mention the cost of the raw materials. Bravo to you, oh sparkly one!!
Oh, and I LOVE that white on white quilt. I'm sure the photos don't do it justice. I'd love to see it in person some time.
Andi 🙂
I've seen this amazing creation in person (oh and the quilt of course) – it's worth every cent. It's a magnificent art piece you can wrap yourself in or fling artfully over a chaise.
The Molli / Quilt Jane combo is at level 'Rock and Doris' in this quilt (my idea of perfection).
Amazing quilt with amazing quilting! I think many non crafters don't think about or understand the costs involved. If people ask me to whip up a quilt of knit a pair of socks for them I do explain what is involved and then they kind of get it. I did suggest to someone that they could clean my house for the number of hours it took me to just 'whip something up". They looked a bit stunned.
I am very surprised at the cost of Jane's amazing quilting, I think she could increase her prices hugely without most people batting an eyelid.
Hey Kate, and cleaners aren't cheap either! I have a friend who cleans houses as a side job, and he charges more than $30 / hour. I incorrectly listed Jane's price, as I was looking at the wrong quilt on my invoice. I've updated it, and the full total, accordingly.
It's almost a shame to talk such gritty details about a quilt that looks so beautiful and pure. Did you actually get that payment for the quilt or is it just what it cost you to make it?
This is just the cost I would potentially now sell it for. I would entertain offers, but I'd also be sad to see it go!
Bravo! Nobody questions the cost of a Picasso, or any modern piece of artwork, why do they constantly feel that textile art (quilt or otherwise) should be any less in value! Blue Moth is right, you missed off the other related costs too! Beuatiful Quilt and Jane is just Awesome!
First – your quilt and Jane's quilting go hand in hand. Your collaboration is like peanut butter and ice cream, succulently delicious.
Second – You are correct, I think many artists under value their time spent on a project, including sewists and quilters. I had decided recently to stop putting ALL my special efforts into gifts I give. I don't mind giving, but when it goes to people who do not make anything themselves, they do not understand the time that went into making something.
Recently I designed a messenger bag, this was something I wanted to make for myself, I used thread sketching, and I paid homage to a band I follow writing their lyrics free motion quilting style on the inside flap of the bag. I had kept time in my head about how long the process took, and I chose a price to sell this messenger bag to anyone who asked, based on my time and my creativity, these are one of a kind items. I knew also, as soon as I told someone how much, they would probably no longer want to purchase one. I did trade a handmade messenger bag featuring Pearl Jam to a friend, who took it to France and brought me back fresh olive oil. I felt this was a fair trade.
I can give gifts to whom I consider worthy, but if you want to buy something from me, you are going to pay the going rate. Rock on Molli Sparkles, I enjoyed this article.
Wow, firstly the quilt absolutely rocks and yes the quilting is special but I love the way you have used the various whites.
Next. I tried to track the production times and values of a quilt once and gave up, you have done a seriously detailed job and I thank you so much for outlining it all and all the costings and so on.
I wish more people would realise what goes into a hand crafted item and appreciate it more.
Thanks for another amazing blog post.
Like others, I expected your long arm costs to be much higher, at least double! And the quilting certainly does elevate it to a whole different level. I agree with pretty much everything you say in this article and yet at this point I would rather receive less money and actually sell something than not sell anything at all 🙁 I have started making it clear that my prices are severely discounted however.
Hey Leigh Anne – I incorrectly listed the custom quilting price, but it and the full total has been corrected. Thanks for bringing it to my attention! Now, I hear what you're saying about selling something, rather than nothing. My question to you would be, maybe you're trying to sell to the wrong market? However, the fact that you do tell people about your discounting goes a long way in education, so kudos to you!
My dear that is not just a quilt. THAT is an absolutely amazing work of art. I mean the color and the graphic quilting is absolutely stunning. How you were able to stick to just the whites and create such lovely texture even before the quilting was done. I know I would have that hanging on a wall because I would be terrified to get even a tiny stain on it. Oh my mind is just blown. No seriously. Yes I an gushing. And you are selling yourself completely short. $2,500? Really. Baby double that and it MIGHT be close to its value. (Even though I admit I don't sell any of my knitting. The time, love, and foul language that goes into each piece is only given as gifts.)
I've got nothing but thanks. I used your original post to help justify my $1,500 USD charge for a commissioned quilt. It was helpful for a lay person to see it broken out thusly.
I find that Etsy tends to be like a garage sale. Many people feel that it is better to sell than to bring it back in the house. & for some that is probably true – a couple hundred will buy the school supplies that are not regularly in your budget… (Extra cost for heat during the winter…)
You bring up so many good points here. I haven't even tried to sell a quilt — it's easier to give them away to good homes than accept less than what they're worth. And I agree wholeheartedly: sometimes scrappy = crappy.
Thank you Molli for posting this at just the right time for me. Yesterday I had to really pull on my big girl panties as I sent out an estimate for a commission quilt job – it took me a whole lot of nerve to hit the Send button because the rate seemed so high! But I'd reviewed your costing posts and based on them, my price seemed fair and felt right to me, the artist. Thank you for all you do to make others aware that underpricing our work hurts everyone. Smooches!
I don't so much care about the costing model because in a capitalist economy, it's the law of supply and demand that determines the price of goods sold rather than the artist's calculations, regardless of how detailed or accurate. But what I did want to comment on was the stunning beauty of the quilt. I wish I could see it in person, where I'm sure I could stare at it for hours. It's somehow striking and stunning and calming all at one time, and while I love the quilting, I'm sure it would still be striking and stunning and calming with different, simpler quilting.
Thank you so much for the lovely compliment. I have the same sensation about this quilt, striking and calming all at once. Supply and demand is an interesting concept here. The artist's calculations go a long way in determining what the supply cost should be so that the response of the demand is appropriate. Various calculations can also be responsible for setting the value for different market places. So I'm not sure the cost of any item can be simplified purely as supply and demand.
For essentially one-of-a-kind objects such as Molly's quilts (or Van Gogh's paintings, for crying out loud), supply = ONE, so you're going to get whatever you ask for as long as you can find the person who can afford your costs and – this is key – appreciates it for that value.
First let me just say that this quilted turned out so gorgeous! I love the photo showing a bit of the front and back, it's just lovely!! I'm so glad you are continuing this conversation and making more people aware of how much their work (or other's work) is actually worth! I just finished a queen sized commission (finished at 82×86 I think), and had it not been for a friend I would have charged AT LEAST a grand for it, though after the amount of time and detail I put into the quilting I probably would have upped it to $1300, so I completely support the numbers you've displayed here. And YES your quilter deserves more!
Thanks for this post!…..until we understand the value of our own work we will never be able to make others aware of the value. seeing it all put together on a spread sheet makes it real and hopefully will encourage people to charge what the work is worth.
The only part that doesn't fit nicely into a spread sheet is artistic value…this quilt is beautiful…..but a really ugly quilt could price out the same. I think there must be a way to add a premium for the quality of the work and the artistic value, but that is very difficult to quantify
I wouldn´t sell this quilt for 6000 dollars, it´s too beautiful!
This is so worthwhile. Thanks for sharing. I think I will give it a try on my next quilt.
Longarmers here in the US charge a lot more than that and even then it's only for a pre-programmed overall basic design. Nothing custom. I am wondering what your costs would be if you had quilted it yourself? (if you do quilt your own tops). I am astounded at what your costs are there for fabric. I will hold my tongue at my quilt store from now on. Holy Cod that's high! Small wonder then that most of the Aussie quilters I see dye their own.
I understand the concept, you understand it and so do the other craftsmen, but the general public still doesnt. You could say it till you're blue in the face, even put it on a billboard and I would say that the vast majority still won't understand all of the time and effort put into handcrafted quilts. They will still barter with you or ask for a major discount. When you try to explain, they don't want to hear an explanation most just walk away. This is were a grassroots education has to be done, and I hope that something like that would make a dent in the public's ignorance. Molli I love your depiction go the whole situation that you did in the form of your quilt! It ROCKS and so do you!
Excellent! I have figured out by square metre a charge for materials and then costed hours taken to complete for all of my quilts…..and then reduced the price! Your post has given me the courage to price my work properly. As a printmaker and fine artist I would not have hesitated to price my art work accordingly and it would have been accepted. Thanks for posting this.
Molli, while I love your logic, and dream of this being a reality,I have to quote the movie and say "I want the fairy tale". I'm doing a street fair in a couple of weeks…we'll see how the selling goes. Thanks as always for your info and thoughts.
Your quilt is beautiful… and your cost analysis is stunning and much needed – thanks! Funny story: I worked almost a year on a hand-pieced hexie quilt, when it was finished I was proud and was showing it off to a friend who said he was "blown away" by the artwork… then followed that statement with the idea that I should open a booth at the local craft fair and sell these quilts, actual words "I bet people would pay $100 for something like this". I almost died. I spent 2-6 hours per day, every day for 8 months working on it. I told him I wouldn't sell it for less than $7000 (about $10/hr in time alone) and that's why I'm keeping it. While I was happy with his original response, it took some time to explain how much time goes into a project like that. Education and respect is much needed in this regard. Thanks for your post, I will be showing this to a few non-stitchers.
Gorgeous quilt — absolutely stunning! Thank you for putting together another excellent blog post about the value of handmade quilts!!
The costing sheets are fantastic. I appreciate the time and effort you put in to making them. Sharing them with the world is beautiful icing on the glorious cake!
One thing I'd like to bring up. These costing sheets can tell us "what to charge" when we, ourselves, are the sellers (i.e. wholesaler). If our quilts go to a retailer, they will mark up the price to add their costs and profits, possibly doubling the price. While quilts are usually one-offs, it can create a sticky wicket to be charging "wholesale" prices (etsy) while also supplying a retailer with stock (retail prices).
Is it opening a whole new can of worms to discuss retail vs. wholesale prices? Should we be charging "true retail" prices in our etsy/big cartel/craft booth shops? (This is obviously a personal decision, but still worth discussion in this context.)
Kelly! Such a great topic of conversation! Mr. Sparkles and I were discussing this last night, and how if a quilter were to take their quilts to a retail shop they would then raise the price again on the quilt. This skewers the desired price for the quilt. However, if you do sell something on Etsy, you are competing against all sorts of retailers that you really don't know anything about. e.g. Are you shopping at K-Mart, or are you shopping at Saks?
However, if I was truly acting as a retailer for my own quilts, I could hypothetically buy my fabrics at wholesale which would then bring the material price down. I'm not sure what the distribution rules are around that though…
First off, that quilt is wicked. Wicked good. I don't think I could possibly endure the eyestrain required to piece and quilt it, but I love looking at it! I am continually gobsmacked at the things you create when you've been at the quilting game for a comparatively short time. Just… well, wow.
And It's always so interesting to read your breakdowns to value a quilt… I don't sell much myself, so I don't often think about what to charge for the quilty love I create, but your posts on this topic always give me food for thought. I appreciate that you're so willing to share your costing sheets with the rest of us. It might be a real eye opener for me to actually cost one of the quilts I make… then I mightn't feel like I need to supplement some of my homemade gifts with other items!
You absolutely rock! This is why I will not sell any of my quilts. I tell people this all the time!
I love you, I love you, I love you.
I need to learn to value myself.
This will help me, a concise, factual, and REAL evaluation of our worth as artists!
Keep shining Mr. Sparkles….
xxoo-nicole
This was all very impressive – the quilt is wonderful, the quilting is amazing and the breakdown of cost is right on the nose. Sadly, we quilters will rarely get full or even near full value for our work. Hopefully, however, this will get quilters to pay attention to the value of their work and not undersell so heavily. Bravo!
Thanks Suz! I think one of the first steps is ensuring we ask to be paid our full value. You don't get, if you don't ask! 🙂
The quilt is awesome and I think your math is very sound. Now will I ever sell a quilt for $1300 most likely not, but then I'm not making to sell. If I give a gift of a quilt I hope the recipient knows the value, if not they most likely won't receive another. I think too many people under value their work, and in doing so under value all of our work.
Beautiful! All of it.
I think we all know what value is in a quilt … The thing is – if I go by value I couldn't even make pot holders as a gift for friends without going past the spending limit – not thinking about giving a gift with an estimated value in the thousands, I mean really what friend would ever give a gift that cost that much (well at least I don't have any friends that would do that). So if I really want to give quilts as gift because I really really like the recipient I will just have to bite in the sour apple and give away thousands of dollars – and I'm not sure if I feel comfortable telling them head on "Ohh btw. if you ensure your stuff, the quilt is worth 2000 $" …
I realised thinking about this that I sometimes even give quilts to people who do not know the slightest tiniest bit about the value of the gift they receive – shocking right? – but I do so not care, some people are worth it, "they are worth my time" and the material too. I hold them so dear that I value the sentimental worth of the quilt they receive hight than anything else.
The value – what do I have from knowing the value if I can't sell it at that price? I doubt it helps me even a tiny bit … does it help to do this kind of posts … maybe .. probably not … after all it's more or less preaching to the choir. Am I too pessimistic in this? What positive comes from knowing I have several thousands (probably ten thousands) of dollars sitting in a cupboard?
Which brings me to the comment of "saphre1964" – if I'm an artist then my pieces do not sell based on a material and time cost evalutaion – so no the value of material and time has nothing to do with the value of the art – which brings my personally to my opinion that only a really tiny percentage of quilts are actually art. If you go in and say you are a craftsperson then yes you can value your work including the value of material used plus the other stuff … [with that I probably stepped right back into the whole my personal understanding of art is hornets' nest]
Reminds me a bit of Tim's post too – the artistic factor – well there is always someone who likes something … I for once find the no values quilt interesting based on the history and the concept that surrounds it and the playing with the hues of white – but I would never truly want it for myself, it's so lacking in colour for my taste. It is really hard to actually produce a quilt that is universally not liked (I mean someone did like the ugly scrap vomits you mentioned).
material prices – if you really sell quilts then you should be a business which means completely different prices for the basic materials, but they would probably be caught up again with that you would have to charge on top of the hourly rate in terms of all the insurances (health, unemplyoment, care, retirement etc.pp.).But then setting up a business is a completely different kind of very discusssionable topic …
But now I need to go rest my tired brain …
Interesting thoughts here! I think it's a great idea to inform people of the insurance costs. Business vs craft vs art. Will think on this more.
Hey Leo – You're right about a handmade item usually being over-valued to give to most people. When I first started quilting I thought I would make baby quilts for everyone who was pregnant in my office. Then I realised that while they were great co-workers, it wasn't necessary for me to gift them that special of a gift: just because I could. So now I have taken the stance that I will only gift my quilts to people who really deserve it, and I want to give them the gift of my time (which as we have seen is more valuable than the materials). I'm in no rush to give quilts away, they'll save for that special person!
I hope, like you suggest, that my post is not in vein. (Otherwise I have wasted a whole lot of my time!) The choir reading the article may all be quilters / sewists, but not all have ever thought about the economics of their quilting. Raising awareness of this topic will hopefully give them the courage to ask for a decent wage when/if they decide to sell their quilt or other hand made item. So yes, I think it is important this discussion happens, even if it is a gentle reminder to say "We Are Sew Worth It."
While I do agree that not all quilts are art (in the same way that not all paintings are a Picasso!), I do believe that all quilts–and crafts–can have a base monetary foundation supported by time and materials. One must look no further than Andy Warhol who would make diptychs and triptychs because they were larger, and thus he could sell them for more money! So larger works of art would have a larger base fee simply because they were bigger and take more time and materials. That's not to say that some other artist might charge more for a smaller piece, but that could be relative to their own art practices.
Anyway, thanks for your wonderful thoughts as always!
ahh but then he was Andy Warhol no … well yes I'm all for valueing quilts based on materials and time – I just have a really really big problem calling it art then .. it also gets confusing wanting to make prices based on say what the plumber is chraging and then argumenting with art .. plumbing is no art … no matter how fascninating some of those multi-pipe around the other piep to go over that bend and somehow snuggle out the back way piping systems look.
It's not nescessarly an either or – but I feel like oyu have to draw a line somewher. You can decide to do art, then you are an artist and artists don't really need reasons for the prices, they need buyers who can spend the money. Or you are a craftsperson, then you do (whatever the word is in English) and then you can come up with the invoice and detailed cost list.
Hmm no I guess the post isn't "in vein" just me being pessimistic … I would be one of the first to probably sell myself short, but then I don't sell, so there is no problem there. I usually do it because I find that whatever I do is "ok" in terms of the craftsmenship that went into it but could aways be better.
I ran across this little post (in German, but there is always google translate) more or less complaining about a Lady faitning once she heard the price for a comissioned quilt she would like ot have made. Well and the Quilter not selling herself short.
http://quiltmanufaktur.blogspot.de/2014/08/was-mache-ich-hier-eigentlich.html
As a PS If you really want to have lifely discussions and all – wouldn't a switch to say a wordpress based blog be better, where we commenters get notified abotu new comments and responses to our comments. That is one of the really big shortcommings of blogger …
Totally hear you about Blogger vs. WordPress. If you'd like to sort that transition out for me, I'd let you. 😉
Oh wow, Jane really does deserve more, it has cost me more far than that to long arm my own fricking quilt, and it would be fair to say I'm so far off the bottom of her skill set, it's embarrassing! (the hire of the machine was more than Jane charged, never mind the 11 hours of my own time I sank into it)
Design Sponge wrote quite an interesting post related to this yesterday BTW:
http://www.designsponge.com/2014/08/the-consumption-conundrum-learning-to-make-mindful-purchases.html
Now I'm off to bed to snuggle under nearly £2k worth of bed linen… At least you created wall art, so yours won't get dirty lol
How crazy expensive is bed linen (not quilts, just sheets and stuff) … mine isn't quite that much, but I feel ya! Although if you count the queen sized quilt on my bed that I made, I'd need to insure it for a lot more! haha! Jane's costs were grossly under-represented for this quilt because I was looking at the wrong line item on my invoice. It and the total value have been corrected. 🙂
Great article found your insight wonderful😄 we all undercharge ourselves for the work we do. I have shared your post and the link to the template to my Janome Embroidery Australia website
Firstly – the quilt is amaze balls, awesome sauce, and stunning beyond stunning.
Secondly, I respect the right of everyone to charge what they wish for their work. I am too much of a perfectionist in that if I see a flaw or some little spot where my seams aren't perfect, it lowers what I think I could charge for it, and to be completely honest, I don't feel (though my family disagrees) that my skill level equals what I would need to charge for a quilt in order to make it worth the time and money to make it right now. I am not at the comfort level yet. Someday perhaps, though I'm very likely to undervalue my time and extremely unlikely to charge a design fee. A rule of thumb that I've heard for handmade items is materials times two or three depending which also doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. That's just me – if you can get that price for your work, then more power to you, dear, and I believe whether you charge it or not, your work is worth every penny and probably more.
Thirdly, just to be political, it amazes me that the people who absolutely believe that quilters are worth every penny for their quilts and work are all too frequently the same people who refuse to buy clothing at prices a penny higher than HALF of what it costs to make it while paying the workers a living wage (let alone in safe conditions) to do so. Can you imagine if we, as a group of quilters and sewists, were all as vehemently insistent that EVERYONE who sews for money be paid fairly?
You'll never get if you don't ask! 🙂 I'm sure you are far better than you think! I've seen your work and it is lovely, so I wouldn't even hesitate about demanding a fair wage for your work. Anything made by hand isn't going to be perfect, and that's its beauty. And whew… I'm not touching that last paragraph! Okay, touching a little bit… you're opening up a conversation about corporations rather than the truly handmade. That conversation is also steeped in global wage laws that not just relate to textiles, but all sorts of production. Okay… enough of that… ! 😀
Love your low volume quilt. It's clever, subtle and so interesting to look at. I don't sell my own quilts for the very reason that I think my time is too precious.
Molli, not meaning to flog a dead horse, but I see 350.00 for long arm services? If this is correct- that is a superb deal for for custom design! I love this quilt and allbthe conversation around it. Do you plan to use it or display as art? great work
I double checked this time! 🙂 I have no intentions with this quilt yet. I'm kind of scared to touch it! haha I am moving into a newly purchased house soon, so will probably hang it somewhere there. I would most definitely be the person to spill red wine on it!
This quilt is gorgeous! Thanks for sharing such a complete breakdown of the price you'd have to charge to be properly compensated. It is so eye-opening, even for those of us who understand the hours upon hours that go into something so big and labour-intensive. It would be wonderful if we could sell at those prices. I think I'd have a hard time parting with this one if it were mine, though. BTW, the TGIFF linky on my blog is still open for a couple of hours.
Your quilt is truly stunning, and it is awesome that you took the time to calculate how much work time got into it.
When I started my etsy shop, I looked what other people charged for the same product, and priced accordingly.
Since then, I raised my prices several times. Because I truly felt that I wasn't paid what the product was worth.
It is not about the material, is about the time, and the energy, and the creativity, that goes into it.
In my case, working with customers who makes custom choices for the fabric, that means I work sometimes several hours – discussing concepts – before I even get to order the fabric I need. My highest scoring customer needed 40 emails before she was ready to order…
So I would say, yes, your calculation looks good to me. Reflecting the value of a piece of art, that is so much more than the fabric and the work that goes into it.
Agreed 100%! The artistry of it is so hard to calculate, so that's always a personal decision. It sounds like you've been able to makes some really great decisions and a strong belief system in your craft! Congrats!
All discussion aside about the costs, that is one hell of a quilt. I love Jane's quilting, it takes your subtle, dare I say it, wallflower of a quilt and makes it the life of the party. Its almost like a wholecloth quilt in the way the quilting speaks for itself, not taking away anything from your patchworking though! I'm sure it looks even better in real life but in the photos the quilting shines. Jane, put up your prices, for that kind of quilting you need to charge more!
Your quilt is beautiful. I have used your costing sheet for a couple custom quilts I have done for friends but I have not charged for my time. I feel that as I am only three years in to this quilting addiction I am still learning and count the this time as valuable practise perfecting different techniques. It's like I'm getting paid to enjoy my hobby! I also sold some quilts on Etsy, probably too cheap but I can then buy more fabric and not feel as guilty. As my skills improve I will charge more for the quilts that I have no family or friend to gift them to. The reality is I can't stop making them and I had a stockpile so I sold some and my family were pretty impressed that I actually sold some and that made me happy that other people liked my quilts enough to purchase them 🙂 Thanks for your great advice 🙂
Hi Laurelle! Congratulations for selling quilts, and getting the right payment you wanted for them! It is a good feeling to be compensated for your work. I do hope you are making the purchasers aware that you are not charging them your time. That way they feel like they are getting an awesome discount (an even greater gift because people respect the gift of time for sure!), and are then educated for future purchases. Also, I bet you are a lot better than you think you are after quilting for three years! I've only been quilting for just over two!
Thanks Molli. That is a good point you make about making sure people know I'm not charging for my time I will definitely do that. 🙂
Your quilt is beautiful without a doubt. My problem is your rude attitude. While championing your own work, you slapped quilters who make "scrap vomit" quilts. Then call your quilt a scrap quilt! Please excuse me, while I clean up my "vomit"!
Hi Sukochi, I would have loved to email you to explain, but you're a No Reply Blogger, so I can't do that. I do hope you see this though, because there seems to be some trees in the way of the forest. I didn't coin the term "scrap vomit," it was already being widely used by quilters all over the Internet before I even started quilting. It is not a derogatory phrase, merely a descriptive one. Whether you find the term rude or not, please don't put that judgement on me. Regardless of the origin of the phrase (anyone out there know who started it??!), I love scrappy quilts! You should probably look at the body of my work before you suggest otherwise. However, my quilt was a "response" to scrappy Trip Around the World quilts, not a put down. I'd be happy to discuss this with you further if you do read this.
Love the quilts! I have made my owns xcl for my couture projects – it is eye opener.
Oh, Molli, you are worth it at any price! I think I'll just tell folks, "If you have to ask, you can't afford it."
Hey Pat – I have used this line a few times. However, it actually came across as somewhat condescending to the person asking. You may not (or you may!) know what their financial situation is like — maybe they just won the lottery! haha! So now I just make sure I tell people what my hourly rate is, and a ball park figure of how many labour hours are involved in a specific size. When in doubt just say 40 and let them do the math quickly! 😉
love your post and your "Pretty Woman" references – I'm doing some sewing today so now I'm going to have to put the dvd on for the million and tenth time !! also agree with your statement about low volume – thanks for putting it out there ! love this effervescent quilt and the quilting – I think its priceless !! ps whenever I think of you now you will be wearing sparkly red hooker boots !!
I would be honoured to be walking through your dreams with sparkly red hooker boots! Just a typical Friday night, really! 😉
Had someone ask me if I sell the quilts I made, I told her that over 100 hrs go into making each Queen size quilt, and that I didn't want to be $1.00 an hr.. she got the drift.. But I do tell everyone that asks, the same thing.. Some folks just do not have a clue about the time involved.. So it is up to us to educate folks about the time it takes to make a quilt. Sometimes I do ask them how much their time is worth at the office. Then tell them the approximate hrs that go into a Queen size quilt. And watch the light bulb go off in their heads..
Thanks Tammy for spreading the word and educating people! It all starts there!
So I just delivered my first commissioned quilt last week. And my husband, mathematician that he is, counted up all of my time, materials, everything down to the kWhr we paid to use my machine and decided I'm not allowed to price quilts anymore. 😀 So he is now my self appointed "business manager". And I'm not allowed to give anyone prices or trades for anything anymore. So sometimes it really is the quilter who's undercharging his/her own work, not the other way around. But maybe I just have a special husband. 😀
I really appreciate your Truth Tea with us! We really do have to educate not only ourselves, but our recipients as well.
Oh I totally think educating our own community is just as important. Not all of us are in the converted choir yet, so we must sing hallelujah whenever we can!
Gosh, Molli – I just love this post!! I know non-quilters have no idea at all how much it costs in the first place just to get all the materials and tools together to make a quilt, let alone have the faintest inkling about how much time (and its value) goes into one, but I am truly sick of people – friends in particular – making light of my time and effort in terms of expecting (not just hoping for) a low price on a quilt-making request. "But I can buy a comforter set at the mall for $180" – – – Be my guest to do so! I have been working an entire calendar year on my king size custom quilted 25th anniversary double wedding ring quilt. I actually have been dreading sharing its finish outside of my blog, because I KNOW I'm going to get unthinking comments from at least 4 people in particular. I'm sure they think it's a humorous backhand compliment, but it just puts my hackles up on my neck every time I get the joking "Wow – thanks for making that for me! You can bring it over any time." Are you KIDDING???? A YEAR of most of my available quilting time invested in this? So when I do show its finish in public, I'm going to forearm myself with the announcement of how much money I expect someone to be willing to put out for it to even begin joking about asking for it. Or to consider requesting one on commission. And it won't be any trifling amount! From the beginning I started a time log and know exactly how much time has been spent on every stage of its creation. I still have somewhere around 38 hours of clean-up work with quilting tissue remains and tails to tie and tuck, then the rest of the binding hand-stitching to the back will probably take another 30-40 hours with these deep inner corners and the insane points I'd wanted at each juncture. So I don't yet know the final cost. But like you, I'm not going to undervalue my time. So far this quilt has hit $7839.00, and it'll take on at least $780 more. So, thank you for making such an educational and supportive quilt.
I just got curious – if I valued my time as the gently-priced attorney we had to use last year does his (and this is at a discount rate that he cut for us), this quilt's cost would actually be at $89,490 and counting. It would certainly top $100,000 US by the time I completely finish!
Oh Lyn, that is crazy – sounds like you need some new friends! 😉 You must send me a photo when you finish this quilt as it sounds exquisite. I think it will definitely be providing more love and warmth than those lawyers ever would!
Mental note: When Lyn reveals this, I'm totally going to post "Thanks for making that for me! You can bring it over any time!" 😀
Well you've made me feel better about not selling my quilts! I have gifted quilts to those I've had in my mind while making the quilt but the last few I'm working on I'm keeping and like Katy, going to snuggle through the winter wrapped in luxurious, comfy cotton!
I love my own quilts so much, I'm quite happy to keep them and use them forever and eva!
What a gorgeous quilt! In all it's glorious beauty it brings new meaning to the phrase if you want to get someone's attention whisper. I'm willing to bet the picture doesn't do it any justice. It would be an awesome quilt to see up close and personal.
Thank you for sharing your pricing breakdown. Well done and well thought out. I've never sold a quilt and don't plan to but if I ever did I would definitely use your pricing method.
Ah – education. It's good for the (quilting) nation! Great post. We really do tend to undervalue ourselves. I'm glad you have undertaken this exercise – and then told us all about it. It would have been wrong not to, so thank you so much for feeling the obligation 😉
The quilting that was done on your quilt is amazing, and even at the (corrected) prices I think Jane has undersold herself! Especially after reading Gemma's post this morning.
As I have gotten older and crankier, I have become a shameless no-er. Can you make me a quit like that? No. Can you teach this class for $10 an hour? No (and get stuffed). Can I blatantly rip off your bag design because I can't afford your ready-made product? No (and really, truly get stuffed).
What I WILL give for free is advice where it is asked for, especially to my friends. But only if they ask because, honestly they have brains of their own! But don't ask me to redesign your quilt. Don't ask me to find fabric sellers or patterns when you can google that yourself. And don't don't DON'T steal my free tutorials and repost it on your blog/magazine article/teach it in your class without asking permission or giving credit.
Thanks again!
Thank you for getting me through the dreaded treadmill miles. I've been reading most of these "sew worth it" posts and comments, and sharing them with my accountant father, as I set up my business this year. I've tracked every hour and fabric purchase going into each quilt in order to price accordingly. But a business is so much more than that – I've got loss leaders (dang baby quilts) and the big sellers (table runners), as well as the in between bigger quilts. And the accountant said very nicely that I can't charge for my time in the same way when I'm multi-tasking – most people can't, for example, do their job at a PTO meeting, whereas I can hand-stitch a binding anywhere.
I did get into my thoughts on t-shirt quilts (my main business) a little on a running board. Of course you can make a t-shirt quilt yourself. They're not really that hard. But when you don't hire me to make it, you might pay more for interfacing, because I know exactly when Joann's has it at 60% off. You might miscut a shirt in your inexperience – and I never, ever do. You might not add in seam allowance. You might cut three shirts and stuff it in a corner to do more "later" and then never get around to finish it. You might finish it! Great! Go price out long armers. Oh, too much? Baste it and quilt it yourself. Realize that t-shirt quilts and home sewing machines are a terrible combo. (I've done it. It's HARD.) Think about the time you've spent on this and how many miles you could have run. And then you discover that my prices are totally worth it.
And I don't even charge for the wine I need to drink in order to design the non-grid t-shirt quilts!
I made my mom and dad a quilt some many years ago. They paid for the fabric and about 1/2 the cost of the longarm fee. I told her not to wash it until I had given her some color catchers and instructions. A few months after I gave it to them, my mom called and confessed that she had washed the quilt in her washer on warm, causing the colors to bleed badly. I told her to wait to do anything, so I could ask the experts at our local quilt shops if there was anything we could do to fix it. She got impatient and went to Joanns and asked the sales lady if they had a product that would take color out of whites. She went home and used a RIT color remover on her $500+ quilt. She now has a quilt with funky washed out colors that looks 300 years old instead of a vibrant custom quilt. Yeah, I no longer quilt for people outside of my immediate family…
Thank you for this interesting discussion! I can agree with the frustration felt in your post and in the comments regarding people's attitude towards the value of a quilt. After all, people will buy a $250 pair of shoes and call it an investment in quality footwear, but they would never purchase a baby quilt from me for the same price, even though it could be seen as a family heirloom that will be around 100 years after the shoes are worn out!
I have a slightly different angle to mention, which may or may not be worthy of discussion. While reading your post and the comments, I was having a niggling feeling which I couldn't put a finger on. Your reply to one of the comments above mentioned that a comment you'd made had felt condescending. I realized that is what was bothering me about this discussion both here and in other places where it has been held.
I think that if we as quilters want to be given respect for our craft, then we must treat potential 'customers' with respect. If we 'educate' them, it must be done in a professional way that leaves them with a positive impression of quilts and their makers. Informing the ignorant public with a condescending tone that leaves them feeling bad, will not serve us well in the long run.
I know that I have been shocked at the price I've had to pay for some area of expertise which I'm not familiar with. If the carpenter who built my garden fence had given me the impression that I was an ignorant person who didn't deserve his work, simply because I had not idea what a garden fence would cots me, well…I would have steered clear of all future interaction with any of them!
I think it may be a fine line between valuing ourselves and our work, and taking ourselves too seriously.
Hey Jolene –
Thanks for visiting and chiming in to the discussion! You’re totally right about the shoes! There are so many other commercial items that come to mind that people will spend money on, but guffaw the cost of a quilt. e.g. I know some people who will easily spend hundreds of dollars on a restaurant dinner. While this is nice, let’s face it, it’s not lasting more that 24 hours if you get my drift! 😉
In regards to the second half of your email, I approach this with some trepidation. First, if you’re new to my blog, you might not realise the general tone of it is often humorous, sarcastic, catty, braggart, loud, brash, and gay. Molli is a diva, and she is going to tell you how she sees it no matter what, and straight to the point. That’s her voice, and I won’t deny that is has caused some people some misinterpretation. It’s all done in good spirits, and she is definitely a fan of everyone, in the hope that people value their own self worth. Valuing yourself leads to valuing your products / creations after all!
All that being said, I don’t think this post is particularly condescending. I think it is confident, as there was hours of research completed for it, while also trying to keep it somewhat humorous to digest such an important, yet complicated topic. So agreed, there is a fine line indeed!
Joshua / Molli
Thank you for sharing this. I was commissioned to make a quilt that I'm only charging $1900 for. For a long time I've felt I should be charging double but have not had the guts to say that's the case. I'm not going to raise the price for two reasons that are important to me. The first is I told him what I would charge and he paid half up front. Second, I want this man to have this quilt because he has made some major financial donations to a charity very close to my heart and this is my way of expressing my thanks. He will be getting an appraisal of the quilt included with his purchase and it's looking like it's a $3,000 quilt, minimum, but that's ok. It's nice though, to know others out there aren't thinking I'm overcharging and who agree we are worth our expertise. After all, $10 an hour is an entry level job. Someone who makes and sells quilts usually has hundreds if not thousands of hours of experience and therefore should be paid just as any skilled laborer is.
I'm coming very late to this discussion (and I'm not a blogger, so you won't be able to reply), but I'd like to comment on the labour hourly rate. Yes, the median hourly rate of pay might be $30 or so, but in addition to that, employees 'earn' superannuation contributions made by their employer and entitlements to annual leave, sick leave, long service leave and personal leave and are covered for worker's compensation insurance. That is, although the employee receives 'only' $30 per hour in cash (before income tax is deducted), their hourly earnings of cash+non-cash benefits means that if you are self-employed, you need to be paying yourself quite a lot more than $30 per hour to be in a similar situation. I believe that there is a very strong case for using $38-$40 per hour in your spreadsheet to mimic a median $30 per hour wage.
Completely agree! High five!
I just saw you and your quilt on QuiltCon ~ ~ ~ Super job on the quilt and the data collection! You’re an asset to our quilting world and I look forward to many more elegant works of beautiful art!! accompanied by intelligent discussion. Bravo!
Came here looking to find more pictures of this quilt after it popped up in QuiltCon IG posts. It’s gorgeous.
I actually got side-tracked a little in the post and wall-o’-comments of that post where people were getting their panties in a bunch over male quilters and equality. This post seems to tie in with it for me as well, as I think some of the issues hearken to people not charging what they’re worth, and seemingly getting a bit salty when others, more visibly men, are able to charge their worth. And I do think that that’s a thing men (as a generalization) are better at.
As for (pay) equality, I think some people fail to understand that equality doesn’t necessarily mean you should get paid the same as the next person, but rather that your gender/color/orientation/fill-in-the-blank isn’t an impediment in the road to being treated the same in similar circumstances. If that makes sense?
Anyway, my main reason for commenting, besides the above aside, and to say this quilt is gorgeous and that the value calculations are helpful, (and I’m glad I’m not the only person thinking some of the scrap vomit quilts were fugly) was because I was piqued by your artist’s statement about the low volume trend, and if you have a moment, and the inclination, whether you’d explain more about that?
Oh, and in regards to coining the term “scrap vomit,” I don’t know if she did, but I first became aware of it through Katy Jones/I’m a Ginger Monkey.